Mr JOYCE (New England) (13:14): I'd like to thank the minister for his presentation. Most importantly, I'd like to acknowledge both Karen and Julie-Ann, who are in the gallery today, and note the tragic loss of Jesse and David. I'll have you know that this House remembers them and their service to our nation. They will not be forgotten. Lest we forget. I'd also like to acknowledge those who have served here. We have so many people who are ex-service men and women. I acknowledge the member for Herbert, the member for Canning, the member for the Gold Coast, the member for Braddon and the member for Solomon—who was here earlier—who have all served our nation so well. I also acknowledge all those on both sides who have served our nation. You may not think that veterans affairs is something that is pertinent to everybody, but it actually is pertinent to the tapestry of our nation. After the Boer War, the best you got was two service medals. It was in 1917 that a senator from this place, Sir Edward Millen, worked on the process of setting up the repatriation body, which then started. At that point in time, there were about 160,000 people still in Europe at the end of the First World War, and Sir John Monash was instrumental in making sure that people made that transition back to civvy street with some sense of dignity and that they were moved into a process of education. What you saw across this nation was the tapestry of returned servicemen, and now returned service men and women, as no better noted in so many areas but repatriation in the form of soldier settler blocks. You mightn't think it's part of your area, but, if you were the member for Cowper, you'd be very aware of soldier settler blocks at Dorrigo. If you were the member for Riverina, you'd be very aware of soldier settler blocks at Tarcutta. If you were the member for Flynn, you would know all about the soldier settler blocks in the Boyne Valley. If you were the member for Kennedy, you would know about the soldier settler blocks at El Arish, and you would know about the soldier settler blocks around Mildura, of which there are a number. This is part and parcel of a nation's purpose to bring people back to civvy street with a sense of dignity. At that stage we failed miserably. Of those people who went back to soldier settler blocks, around 35 per cent of them had gone within five or six years. I acknowledge the work that my family did back then. Both my grandfathers were returned servicemen. One of them, who was from Adelong, had a meeting with then Labor minister Sheahan to say: 'We cannot create those starvation blocks like we did for the First World War. The people coming back from the Second World War must receive a proper capacity to have a crack at it.' So the Second World War soldier settler blocks were better. But the task goes on. Things change. In 1976, we changed from the repatriation body to the Department of Veterans' Affairs. And the advent of the Vietnam War and the circumstances of people returning presented new challenges which had to be dealt with, and this goes on now. Right now, we have about 340,000 veterans who are basically circulating and need our assistance. The Australian Institute of Health and Wellbeing did a study and presented its report in 2021. Something is terribly wrong with the fact that you are 50 per cent less like to die—especially with the tragic issue of suicide—if you are a serving member and slightly less likely but still likely if you are a reservist. But if you were taken out of service, especially involuntarily, for medical reasons, it's massively higher. If you are a woman, it's massively higher. This is an issue we must address. It is the essence. It is a tragedy. It rips us to our being, especially with having Karen and Julie-Ann here today. There are so many good people who have lost their lives being at home, being away from harm. We must do something. This is it. I want to acknowledge the work of people such as the member for Wide Bay, the member for Braddon, the member for Herbert and the member for Canning in their stance to bring about the royal commission and to fight for the royal commission. I was part of the coalition backbench for defence, and we wanted to make sure we brought this thing about. I must admit that I don't concur with the sense of partisanship in thinking that this is on one side of the House or the other. We treasure the lives of other people just like you do. There's no differentiation on that, and we want to make sure that we do our part. With regard to the 13 recommendations of the interim report, I would say, in deference to my backbench, who I correspond with, communicate with and negotiate with, I don't see any real problem with where your position is compared to where ours is. I can't see any major gulf. I understand too that the issues we had were pertinent to parliamentary privilege. That was of concern to us and, obviously, as has been noted, it was of concern for you. There are ways around this, and we want to be able to do that. All the way through, we gave more money into veterans affairs. I want to acknowledge the work done by former veterans affairs ministers. I can see former veterans affairs minister Tehan, former veterans affairs minister Stuart Robert and former veterans affairs minister Michael McCormack. On secondment now in the United States is former veterans affairs minister Darren Chester. And we have the former veterans affairs minister, the member for Calare, Andrew Gee. I'd like to acknowledge the work they did to try and make sure that we brought this about. We were putting money towards this right until before the election. I know; I was there and part of some very involved discussions to make sure that we got more money to deal with the backlogs. One of the reasons we have backlogs is that we have made it vastly more accessible for people to get access to support. I think in 2016 and 2017 there were 47,000 people or thereabouts in the application process. In 2021 there were about 137,000. That is about 2½ the times the number of people needing access. The number went through the roof and the resources we had to put towards it had to go up as well. Each year we were putting more and more money towards it. In the last coalition budget, $22.8 million was provided for the next two years for additional resources—additional. That was one of the last things we did before the election was called. We were trying to make sure that we got into this process, understood the issues before us and understood how we had to get through that backlog. I know that's one of the seminal points of the royal commission. Wellbeing centres are incredibly important to us. We put in the budget and paid for 14 wellbeing centres. I want to acknowledge the member for Cowper. I was up in his neck of the woods at Sawtell with Louise and Robert Freebairn and Richard Kelloway. There they have a hub-and-spoke arrangement. I note that during the election campaign you said that we had gone from 14 wellbeing centres down to 10. We should take it back to 14, because it is in the budget. Don't cut that the expenditure. Make sure those wellbeing centres are there. Sawtell is more of a hub-and-spoke arrangement. You noted in your campaign that you're going to have one on the North Coast in the Tweed. But we need something for Coffs Harbour. We've got to look after people in places like Coffs Harbour, Sawtell and Nambucca Heads. There's another one in the member for Riverina's electorate at Kapooka, with HMAS Penguin. And what's the air force base? Mr McCormack: Albatross. Mr JOYCE: Albatross. The Riverina should have a wellbeing centre. If there's ever a place that should have a wellbeing centre, it's the Riverina—it's Wagga. For all the people who've been through Kapooka—one training group Wacol; not quite Kapooka but within sight—these are incredibly important. You haven't got anything for the Riverina—and we should have something for the Riverina. You should go from 10 to 14. Just match it up and make it work. Go to 14. This is incredibly important. Noting what the Australian Institute of Health and Welfare is saying about suicide rates amongst regs, reservists, the general population and people coming home, my personal belief is that we've got to give people that step back into civvy street. It can't be 'out the door and onto the street'. There has to be a step back into a reserve unit. That's a big one. And reserve units should be where people can access them. They should be kitted out in such a way that they look like an authentic reserve unit. People should go back to Tamworth, Rockhampton or where I was—the depot at Roma, but it has gone now. There should be that position because we know that helps. We also should make sure that people have an understanding of what military service is about. This is why I think in the start we have to look also at cadet units so that people understand what they're doing. As I said, my father was buried the other day. He was repatriated, so I get this. He was smashed up. There has to be that step back into civvy street that is less abrupt than what we have. We know that the longer people have an engagement with the military the less likely they are to cause harm to themselves. We have to make sure that that engagement goes over a longer period of time. I don't want to detain the House. You should never speak longer than the minister because that's impolite, but I do want to say one thing. I thank you, first of all, for your engagement with me. As much as possible we on this side want to bring about outcomes. We're not looking for blues; we are looking for outcomes. But you should be on the front bench, mate. Honourable members interjecting— Mr JOYCE: You almost got the votes then. A couple more and you've got it. This is important. This is a royal commission. There are 340,000 veterans out there. People's lives are on the line. They demand that you have that section on the cabinet table. You have to go in there. The Prime Minister should not have removed veterans affairs from the front bench. It should be there in cabinet. I ask politely that you get reappointed because as this goes forward it's going to get more complicated and you will need to have the capacity to bring things immediately into the cabinet room, so you have to be there. I close where I started. I close by saying to Karen and Julie-Ann: 'We thank your sons for their service, but the cross you have to carry with Jesse and David will be for the rest your life, absolutely forevermore. We can't for one second start to mimic, understand or give some implication of comparability of the pain that goes through your hearts, your lives and your head every night when you put your head on the pillow, but know that, no matter what side we're on, we care and we remember the service they gave. We know our nation is safer because of Jesse and David. We know that they did their bit. You are families of honour forevermore, and our nation will always remember you. We will remember not only the service your sons gave but also the service you give by right of your attachment to them every night. Thank you very much.' For all those who have served and paid the supreme sacrifice: you are always in our hearts. Lest we forget.