Senator McALLISTER (New South Wales—Minister for Emergency Management and Minister for Cities) (14:32): As has been clear, our approach in providing energy bill relief has been to make sure every household gets access to this. I understand that you may have a different view about whether that is necessary, but we take the view that families across the country are under pressure and we do what we can to help. We've known that addressing the cost of living is a significant priority for this government across the entire term. It's why we've taken the steps we have: delivering tax cuts, delivering energy bill relief for households, getting wages moving again, making medicines cheaper and making it easier to see a GP. All these steps have been put in place so as to— Senator David Pocock: Point of order on relevance: I had no preamble. It was a very tight question. I understand their rationale. I'm just asking how many people who earn more than $200,000 a year are getting these rebates. The PRESIDENT: The minister has been relevant to your question. Senator McALLISTER: We are clear that every household will receive bill relief. In addition to that, many, many businesses—around one million small businesses—will also receive relief. In the long term, we know that the transformation of the energy system is necessary to get prices under control. We came to government and faced a very serious situation in the energy system. We had almost a decade of failed energy policies—22 policies, and none of them landed. Senator David Pocock: On relevance: I had absolutely no preamble. I had a one-sentence question: 'How many people who earn more than $200,000 a year are receiving the rebate?' How is that relevant? The PRESIDENT: That's the same point of order you stood on before, and I've ruled on that. The minister is being relevant. Senator McALLISTER: As I was indicating, we came to government under circumstances where there had been 22 failed energy policies and none of them had landed. There was significant work to do—to restore order, to restore confidence in the electricity system—and we've set about taking the necessary steps to make that happen, to restore confidence in the investment community— The PRESIDENT: Senator Lambie? Senator Lambie: A point of order on relevance: it's a simple question. How many people on $200,000 is this going to— The PRESIDENT: Senator Lambie, there is no— Senator Lambie: If you don't have a number, it's because you have not done your homework. The PRESIDENT: Senator Lambie, resume your seat. First of all, direct the point of order to me. You're not raising a point of order with the minister. That's the third time that point of order has been raised. The minister has answered a question and is being relevant. Senator Lambie interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Senator Lambie, resume your seat, unless you have a question towards me. Senator Lambie: I have a question, if you could explain to me how that is relevant to the question. I'm sorry: I must be stupid, but perhaps you could explain the relevance to me, so that I understand your thinking, because I'm not accepting what is— The PRESIDENT: Senator Lambie— Senator Lambie: I just want an answer—the relevance. The PRESIDENT: Senator Lambie, you're not in a debate with me. Senator Lambie interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Senator Lambie, come to order! Senator Lambie interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Senator Lambie, come to order or you'll be named. Senator Lambie interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Senator Pocock has asked the question. The minister has answered the question. It may not be in the terms that specifically meet your needs, but she has answered the question. Senator Lambie interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Senator Lambie, resume your seat! Senator McAllister, please continue. Senator McALLISTER: Thanks, President. To say it for the third time, this is a measure that applies to all households, Senators. So, it applies to all households, irrespective of the level of income of that household. (Time expired) The PRESIDENT: Senator Pocock, first supplementary.