Senator WONG (South Australia—Minister for Foreign Affairs and Leader of the Government in the Senate) (14:51): I think all of us are a little bemused at which line the shadow minister for finance is actually running. Is she saying the Public Service is too big or too small? It's interesting—they want to have it both ways. What we do know is that Mr Dutton wants to remove some 36,000 jobs, and we know what Liberal governments have previously done when it comes to the Public Service. We also know what's in the budget papers. Either the shadow minister for finance is unable to read the budget papers properly or she is being deliberately misleading about what those budget papers contain. What I'd say to her is that these are the same methodologies that governments past have used in relation to the forecasting of wages and salaries. I'm sorry if you can't understand that, Senator Hume. The PRESIDENT: Minister Wong, please resume your seat. Senator McKenzie interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Senator McKenzie, come to order. Senator Hume. Senator Hume: A point of order on relevance. The question was: have you decided to keep the Public Service at current levels? That's it. The PRESIDENT: The minister is being relevant to your question. Minister, please resume your seat. Senator McKenzie interjecting— Senator McGrath interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Withdraw those comments, Senator McKenzie and Senator McGrath. Senator McGrath: I withdraw. Senator McKenzie: I withdraw. Senator WONG: What I'd say to you is that I think Senator Gallagher responded very clearly and very well on this on Insiders yesterday with excellent— (Time expired) The PRESIDENT: Senator Hume, second supplementary?