Senator CADELL (New South Wales—Nationals Whip in the Senate) (17:31): What we're getting into today is this massive thing around nuclear, but what we need to get down to are basic facts. What Australia needs is an energy mix. It needs to not have all its eggs in one basket, because we all know how that can go. Senator Ayres: Cost it, man! Just cost it. Senator CADELL: We heard the previous speaker talking about 2,400 gigawatts of power coming on with new wind in the last two years and not a single bit over what we were doing two years ago actually going into the grid in the last month, because they are transient, they are flexible and they do not always deliver what they should. In fact, the best rate of plate capability to actual delivery of power comes from one windfarm in Australia that delivers 43 per cent of what its plate rate says, not the actual rate that it says, because that is what it does. Up my way we have the Tomago aluminium smelter, which currently uses 950 gigawatts of actual, firmed power. They're in the market for renewables, because that's what they have to do to meet so many of these compliance things. They're after three gigawatts, which is more than three times the plate rate of power, because it is no longer dispatchable; it is no longer firmed. This is where nuclear comes in. If we're going down this path of emission-free power—let's get down to it—under this government's policy, what we're going to see is coal plants going longer. We'll see more emissions from older and older coal plants as they stretch them out, like the Labor government did in New South Wales. Senator Ayres interjecting— Senator CADELL: We'll see gas peaking plants needing to be built to fix this gap, because they won't be getting to the 82 per cent goal by 2030. They're going to be nowhere near it, let's be honest, because they're playing with unicorn technology. They're talking about floating offshore wind. Let's go there. They want to talk about things that don't exist. Show me a floating offshore substation anywhere in the world. I know those on the other side cannot show me, because it does not exist. Senator Ayres interjecting— Senator CADELL: The only floating offshore wind in the world is 11 floating turbines from Hywind and five that are powering gas and petrol extraction plants off the coast of Norway. How long did they last? Let's go back to that. They're being pulled out after seven years of operation. That is the length of energy security. They are coming in for long-term maintenance after seven years. That is what renewables gets you. It gets you a short-term, non-commercial rate of return. So what do we want to do? We want to put 300 of these off the Port Stephens coast. We want to put 300 of these off the Illawarra coast. We want to put them around. So, if these things don't work, what do we do? We go to the only non-emission— Senator Ayres: You're worse than Barnaby! The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT ( Senator O'Sullivan ): Senator Cadell, please be seated. Senator Ayres, it was very quiet in here before you came in. If you could, please allow the speaker to continue to speak. Senator Cadell, you'll be heard in silence. Senator CADELL: Thank you for your protection from those opposite. Here we go. So we have nuclear as the only emission-free firmed power that can do this. It has to be in the mix because, of all of the countries in the world, none has a plan to get to zero emissions on wind and solar alone. They don't, because they can't do it. I'm standing here ready to take an interjection as to what country has. A government senator interjecting— Senator CADELL: Oh: now we hear gas coming in. But we're going to hear about coal. We're hearing more and more. We're not talking renewables under this. Gas has emissions. We're hearing from Labor now, with that interjection, that their plan will have emissions if they're relying on gas for that firming. That is what they're saying. I'm happy for gas; I'm happy for coal. Senator Ayres interjecting— Senator Hughes: Acting Deputy President, on a point of order: it was very easy to hear every other speaker, prior to the entry of Senator Ayres into the chamber. I just wonder if he might lower his tone so I can hear Senator Cadell. The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT ( Senator O'Sullivan ): Thank you for reminding Senator Ayres of the point that I'd already made as Acting Deputy President here. Senator Cadell, you will be heard in silence. Senator CADELL: So, we get down here. Nuclear has to be part of the mix. Nuclear can give you power when you turn the switch on. Nuclear can always be there. If we're going down this hydrogen path for vehicles—and I think we will be using hydrogen—it doesn't have to be green hydrogen; it can be hydrogen that comes from nuclear power plants when they're always running. And you can have your Hyundai N74 car. We can have trains running on these things. You have to have power that is firm, that is real, that is dispatchable, that is ready for industry. You have to have it always there. And battery technology is not evolving. We've just heard from those opposite, with an interjection, that their plan knows they can't get to a zero-emissions energy grid; they need gas. That was their admission. They're going to have to sweat coal. So, nuclear is the answer here. When you're talking about the AP1000, there are nine of them being built. There are six in existence. And those energy technology powerhouses like Bangladesh can do it. Bangladesh has us covered in the technological area when it comes to nuclear. These are the things we're talking about. These people don't believe in nuclear, because they don't believe in Australia. The PRESIDENT: The question is that the motion moved by Senator Duniam be agreed to.