Senator GALLAGHER (Australian Capital Territory—Minister for the Public Service, Minister for Finance, Minister for Women, Manager of Government Business in the Senate and Vice-President of the Executive Council) (14:15): I don't accept that that is what the Treasury secretary has said. I think it's thoroughly unsurprising, Senator Hughes, that you would come in here and verbal the Treasury secretary, as you choose to verbal a whole range of people—not you individually but the opposition as a whole. I don't accept that. I also don't accept— The PRESIDENT: Minister, please resume your seat. Senator Hughes interjecting— Senator GALLAGHER: Well, find me the bit where he blames— Opposition senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order! Minister, please resume your seat. Senator Hughes: I'm making a point of order. Please sit down. The PRESIDENT: Senator Hughes, I'll remind you to wait for the call. And I'll remind all senators that interjections across the chamber are disorderly. Senator Hughes. Senator Hughes: President, perhaps you could remind the minister to direct her comments through you and not make imputations about senators by using 'you' while pointing at them in a specific way. The PRESIDENT: Thank you, Senator Hughes. Honourable senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order! I am more than willing— Senator Hughes interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Senator Hughes, would you like to hear the response? I am more than willing to remind senators to address their answers to the chair. And I will once again take this opportunity to remind senators that interjections are disorderly. Minister Gallagher, please continue. Senator GALLAGHER: Thank you very much. I do challenge the way that Senator Hughes has framed that question. In terms of the increases in net overseas migration that we've been seeing—and I answered a question earlier in the week on this, in relation to the fact there haven't been any changes in policy settings—what we have seen is an increase in the number of— The PRESIDENT: Minister, please resume your seat. Senator Birmingham? Senator Birmingham: A point of order on direct relevance: the question wasn't about whether there were policy changes to net overseas migration. The question was whether the rate of immigration and population growth is adding to inflation. The Minister for Finance and the Treasurer actually addressed the connection and the impact on inflation. The PRESIDENT: Thank you, Senator Birmingham. The question also went to comments the Treasury secretary had made. They went to immigration, they went to housing, they went to rents and they went to inflation, and the minister is being relevant. Minister, please continue. Senator GALLAGHER: In relation to the pressures on the housing market, they've been as a result of a decade of neglect by you. That's the result. That's what we've seen, and you voted against our policy to seek to address it. The PRESIDENT: Minister, thank you. Senator Birmingham? Senator Birmingham: I rise on a further point of order, President, to seek that you bring the minister to the question and to ask you, President, when this chamber comes back to bring to the chamber a sense of ruling guidelines as to how questions can be structured such that they may actually have a test of direct relevance enforced. That's because the ruling you made before essentially means that if any word is contained in a question then you are going to deem it to be directly relevant if the minister somehow hangs off of that word. In that case it makes no difference as to how a question is worded, how specific a question can be; it is just, President, the fact— The PRESIDENT: Thank you, Senator— Senator Birmingham: that you are allowing a word association game to take place. Senator Wong: President— Senator Birmingham: She hasn't given you the call yet, Senator Wong. You don't just get to stand and speak. The PRESIDENT: Order! Senator Birmingham: She's the President. She can sit me down and then give you the call; you don't get to. The PRESIDENT: Order! Senator Birmingham, I've taken your point of order. If you will— Government senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order! I will just respond to Senator Birmingham. Senator Wong? Senator Wong: On the point of order: I was seeking the call, and you—through you, President—the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate also doesn't get to dictate how this chamber runs. Senator Birmingham interjecting— Senator Wong: Well, I was seeking the call. Senator Birmingham interjecting— Senator Wong: Are you finished? Senator Birmingham: You didn't wait for me to finish. The PRESIDENT: Order! Senator Wong: Well, I'm very happy for Senator Birmingham to have a look at how much time he just took with a point of order. But, on the point of order: it has never been the case that the opposition or the chamber can dictate to the President precisely how they rule on points of order relating to direct relevance. Senator McGrath interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order! Senator McGrath! Senator Wong: I would make this point: the most we on this side got when over there was precisely what this President is doing, which is to draw a minister to the question, consistent with what President Ryan did. I know you'd like a different ruling than the ones that have been in place for a very long period of time, but I'd submit to you, President, that you ought not be required to come back with the sort of document that he requests, because you are entirely consistent with the rulings of the past Presidents. The PRESIDENT: Senator Birmingham, I will say I think you quoted me out of context. I simply referred to statements made by the Treasury secretary. I did not go to some kind of single-word analysis. As you are well aware, a minister, in responding to a question, is able to respond to the entirety of the question, and the minister is also entitled to respond to interjections. I have tried very hard, as I do every single question time, to ask for silence in this chamber. I very rarely get it. If senators want their questions answered, then I would suggest no interjections, and, where necessary, I will draw the minister back to the question, as I do, and have done this week. Minister, please continue. Senator GALLAGHER: I would just point out that the steps we've taken to address pressures in the housing market have been opposed by those opposite. The PRESIDENT: Senator Hughes, a second supplementary?