Senator FARRELL (South Australia—Minister for Trade and Tourism, Special Minister of State and Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) (14:03): The truth of the matter is that the Reserve Bank is an independent organisation in this country. It was independent under your government and it's independent under our government. It makes decisions which, obviously, have an impact on the lives of ordinary Australians. There is not one person in the Labor government who wants to see interest rates going up— The PRESIDENT: Minister Farrell, please resume your seat. Senator Birmingham? Senator Birmingham: President, I have a point of order on direct relevance. This is quite remarkable; this is the minister representing the Treasurer. Yesterday also he was the minister representing the Treasurer. He was asked for this data yesterday. He was unable to give the data yesterday, but it's inconceivable that somewhere in his briefing, somewhere in his pack, he doesn't have the specific data Senator Scarr has requested. And I ask you to draw him to the particular question, not a lesson on Reserve Bank independence. The PRESIDENT: Thank you, Senator Birmingham. I will remind the minister of your question. Senator FARRELL: I don't think it helps those Australians who are now finding it difficult to make repayments that you seek to get some political either advantage or satisfaction out of the difficulties that ordinary Australians are now facing. (Time expired)