Senator FARRELL (South Australia—Minister for Trade and Tourism, Special Minister of State and Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) (14:18): I thank Senator Van for his supplementary question. Again, I'm not going to get into gotcha questions. The government is trying to put downward pressure on a whole lot of items that are making life difficult for ordinary Australians— The PRESIDENT: Senator Van? Senator Van: President, again, direct relevance: the question was quite narrow in its phrasing, and if the minister doesn't know the answer he can take it on notice and come back to the chamber. The PRESIDENT: Thank you, Senator Van. The minister did respond to the question, but I will draw him back to the question again. Senator FARRELL: We understand the pressures that Australian families are under. We've talked previously, in your previous question, about the issue of rental affordability. Now you're talking about the issue of mortgage rates. We have been working solidly to put downward pressure on all of these items that are affecting ordinary working Australians. (Time expired) The PRESIDENT: Your second supplementary, Senator Van?