Senator McKENZIE (Victoria—Minister for Emergency Management and National Recovery and Resilience, Minister for Regionalisation, Regional Communications and Regional Education and Leader of The Nationals in the Senate) (14:37): That is absolutely a hypothetical question, Senator Keneally. I have been very clear on what process has been outlined by the Deputy Prime Minister and the Prime Minister. I will return to what former Nationals leader Warren Truss had to say when the Rudd Labor government put forward the ETS, your climate policy. He said— The PRESIDENT: Senator Watt on a point of order? Senator Watt: It's on relevance. How is quoting from a book about the Rudd government possibly relevant to a question about the cabinet handbook? I would submit that ministers are flagrantly abusing the privileges of senators in here and are testing your limits, as the new President. I would ask you to make sure that their answers are relevant. The PRESIDENT: Senator Watt, I have heard your point of order. I have another submission. I assume it's on point of order, Senator Birmingham? Senat or Birmingham: On the point of order, the question went to matters of cabinet convention and processes, which are, of course, very longstanding customs and practices. I am not aware of the contents of the quote that Senator McKenzie is going to use and, unless Senator Watt has powers that I've not yet seen, nor is he. So it's entirely possible that the quote is indeed relevant to matters of cabinet process and cabinet consideration, which would make it directly relevant to the question that was asked. Th e PRESIDENT: Senator McKenzie, I believe that Senator Watt may have a point of order, but, as Senator Birmingham has pointed out, we don't know the content of your quote. But I would caution you against reading something that is not relevant. Senator Mc KENZIE: I was asked this in my capacity as a cabinet minister, and so I am quoting a former National Party cabinet minister and Deputy Prime Minister who, when considering this exact issue under the Rudd Labor government, in the shadow cabinet, said that the Labor Party's climate policy was a 'job-destroying rabid dog that should be put down'. The PRESIDENT: Senator McKenzie, unless you want to return to the question, I'm going to ask you to stop reading from the book. Senator McKENZIE: I'll agree to your ruling, Mr President. The PRESIDENT: You have 19 seconds remaining if you wish to take it. Senator McKENZIE: I'm very proud to be leader of a Senate team that doesn't shy away from having the tough conversations. Too many people in this place don't stand up for the people that sent them here. Ask the foresters, ask the CFMMEU and ask Michael O'Connor who actually stands up for their jobs, and it's not you. (Time expired)