Senator RUSTON (South Australia—Minister for Families and Social Services and Manager of Government Business in the Senate) (15:19): Thank you, Senator Kitching, for another question on the same subject. Recovering overpayment, as I've said, is an absolutely fundamental part of our welfare system. When somebody has a debt, the government is legally obliged to pursue that debt. As I said, if it's identified that that debt doesn't exist because they've provided additional information or they've engaged with the department, then of course there is an appropriate process through which that debt doesn't actually exist. We simply ask that people, if they receive a letter asking for additional information, engage with the Department of Human Services so that we can establish whether the debt does exist or not. If the debt does not exist, then of course there is never a debt raised. But, before the election, the government and the Labor opposition used to be on a unity ticket over this. As I said, it was actually your previous opposition leader who came out and said that this is a legitimate part of welfare. He actually said, 'No-one gets a leave pass.' Why is it that, all of a sudden— The PRESIDENT: Senator Kitching on a point of order? Senator Kitching: My point of order is on direct relevance, Mr President. I asked if the minister would apologise for the trauma, stress and shame inflicted by the government's deeply flawed and unfair scheme, especially given that only 1,000 people have ever been aided by Centrelink with their paperwork. The PRESIDENT: Order, Senator Kitching. You're now stretching a bit further beyond a point of direct relevance. The question contained a number of terms, and, with respect, the minister is allowed to not specifically answer the question you would prefer—which is, 'Will the minister apologise?'—and is entitled to be directly relevant to the other terms used in the question. I think the minister is, in this case, being directly relevant to the other parts of the question. Senator RUSTON: I refer to a press release that was released by the Minister for Human Services on 29 June 2011. I quote from that: Beginning … this year, Centrelink and the ATO will automatically match data on a daily basis as a way of cross-checking former welfare recipients who have a debt with the Commonwealth. … … … Those … identified as having debts and who haven't made repayment arrangements ... I underline my last point: 'those who haven't made repayment arrangements'. If you make a repayment arrangement or you engage with Centrelink, often the debts are not raised. The other thing I note is that Ms Plibersek made the following comment: The Government prefers to work with people and provide them with flexible debt repayment options, rather than having to garnishee their tax refunds … But if people … (Time expired)