Senator McKENZIE (Victoria—Deputy Leader of The Nationals and Minister for Regional Services, Sport, Local Government and Decentralisation) (14:45): As the minister representing, I am unaware of the issues that you are raising, Senator Watt. The PRESIDENT: Senator McKenzie, have you concluded your answer? Senator Wong. Senator Wong: I would request that the minister take it on notice, as is the usual courtesy. The usual courtesy for a minister representing in this chamber— Senator Ian Macdonald: A point of order! The PRESIDENT: Order! Senator Wong: Can you please stop shouting, Senator Macdonald. The PRESIDENT: Order! Senator Macdonald, I will come to you after I hear from Senator Wong. Senator Wong, have you concluded? Senator Wong: I have. The PRESIDENT: Okay. Senator Macdonald? Senator Ian Macdonald: Mr President, again I ask: why is the leader of the opposition able to stand in her place and just have a chat? She doesn't raise a point of order. She just needs to get the cameras on her for some reason or other. I can understand why Senator Keneally is looking at her chair very carefully, but the same rules should apply to me as apply to Senator Wong as apply to all of us. Honourable senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order! I am not going to call you until there is silence, Senator Collins. Senator Keneally: That's what they do when you speak, Senator Macdonald! The PRESIDENT: Order, Senator Keneally! Senator Cameron: You don't have a chair after this. The PRESIDENT: Order, Senator Cameron! Senator Cameron: You're gone. The PRESIDENT: Take a breath after I call your name, Senator Cameron. Senator Wong: Just move on. The PRESIDENT: Order, Senator Wong! On the point of order, Senator Collins? Senator Jacinta Collins: On the point of order, Mr President, Senator Wong clearly indicated that the point of order was in relation to relevance. Senator Macdonald, because he is busy listening to himself shouting, may not have heard that; but she clearly indicated what the point of order was. It is not appropriate that the minister simply say in question time, 'That's a spurious matter and I'm not going to answer any further questions.' Question time will become a farce if that's allowed. Senator Ian Macdonald: Senator Collins should apologise to me, because Senator Wong stood and didn't even mention— The PRESIDENT: Order, Senator Macdonald! I'm going to rule on this. On the first issue, there isn't an issue of direct relevance once the minister has concluded their answer. On the second issue that Senator Macdonald raised: there has always been some precedence and flexibility granted to leaders of government and opposition in this place, and I reflect that in my rulings. I will ask the leaders of parties across the crossbench, government and opposition to lead by example when it comes to interjections and disorderly behaviour. We have concluded, as far as I'm aware, that question, so I will move to Senator Brockman.