Senator PAYNE (New South Wales—Minister for Defence) (14:55): I respectfully disagree with Mr Costello on this matter, although we have worked together in the past on a number of issues. Let me be very clear about what is in the Defence Export Strategy. It builds on the government's very strong defence industry policies by setting out a comprehensive system to plan, to guide and to measure defence export outcomes. What we are doing is bringing together all the levers that are available to government and to industry to provide end-to-end support for defence exports, from building export readiness to identifying export opportunities, and, ultimately, to realise defence export outcomes. We are also establishing, through the strategy, the Australian Defence Export Office within the Department of Defence, which will provide a focal point for defence exports. The strategy is also creating a Defence Export Advocate, who will support the office by providing ongoing, high-level advocacy for defence exports. They have not yet been appointed but they will be a senior figure with strong knowledge of the Australian defence industry. So what we have committed to—and I emphasise that this is all structured within the defence trade control system, which already applies strongly to what we do when we observe our obligations under that system— The PRESIDENT: Order, Senator Payne. Senator Whish-Wilson on a point of order? Senator Whish-Wilson: A point of order about relevance, President: I have waited till over halfway through the minister's response— Senator Payne: You asked me if I agreed with Tim Costello. I said no. The PRESIDENT: Order! Can I hear the point of order from Senator Whish-Wilson? Senator Whish-Wilson: I asked him: if not, why not? How is this not profiting from bloodshed and exporting death? You haven't answered that, Minister. The PRESIDENT: Senator Whish-Wilson, your question was quite lengthy and wide-ranging. The minister is relevant to the terms of the question you asked. Senator PAYNE: The senator asked me if I agreed with Mr Costello and I said, respectfully, no, I do not. What we are engaged in is, as I said, managed within the defence trade control system. Our export control provisions reflect our international obligations as a member of global non-proliferation regimes and as a signatory to the Arms Trade Treaty, and are consistent with like-minded countries. We assess all of our exports against five criteria: international obligations, human rights, regional security, national security and foreign policy. One of the challenges for defence industry in the past has been a lack of consistency— (Time expired) The PRESIDENT: Senator Whish-Wilson, a supplementary question?