Senator PAYNE (New South Wales—Minister for Defence) (14:18): There is absolutely no inconsistency. What the Minister for Defence Industry has observed is that in previous discussions there have been generally accepted views around at least 60 per cent. But the government's approach—consistently across the Prime Minister, me and the Minister for Defence Industry—is to absolutely maximise Australian industry engagement. I myself have attended— The PRESIDENT: Senator Wong, on a point of order? Senator Wong: Yes, on direct relevance. The Minister for Defence Industry said a 'minimum' of 60 per cent. How on earth is a discussion about a maximum relevant to a minimum? The PRESIDENT: Senator Wong, I consider the minister to be directly relevant to the question. Senator PAYNE: I'm enjoying enormously talking about Australian industry participation in the naval shipbuilding industry. One of the reasons that it is such an enjoyable exercise for me is that there is not one single person on the other side who can speak with any authority on this matter. Do you know why, Mr President? It's because in the entire term of the Labor government—let me remind you, 2007-2013—not one single order was placed for one single ship to be built in Australia. Not one! The PRESIDENT: Senator Gallagher, a final supplementary question.