Senator CASH (Western Australia—Minister Assisting the Prime Minister for the Public Service, Minister for Employment and Minister for Women) (14:26): Again, I completely reject the premise of Senator Cameron's question. The committee has determined that the next estimates hearing will be on 8 December. But I have to thank Senator Cameron in relation to the issue on penalty rates. Honourable senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order! Sorry, Senator Cash, I have Senator O'Sullivan on his feet. Senator O'Sullivan: Mr President, I'm one of those senators who hangs on every word of Senator Cash, and I can't hear any of them. I would ask that you rule that the others be quiet while we listen to these very comprehensive answers. The PRESIDENT: Again, we've had a second request from a senator who can't hear the answer of a minister, so I'll ask senators to show some courtesy to their colleagues and hear Senator Cash in silence. Senator CASH: As I was saying, in relation to the issue of penalty rates, Senator Cameron, you are absolutely wrong. The only person in this place as a parliamentarian who has record and form in relation to slashing penalty rates, as you know, is the current Leader of the Opposition, Mr Bill Shorten. You can stand up and say what you like, but when it comes to the shop, distributive and allied union—Senator Don Farrell's favourite union—don't they like to get into bed with big business and do dirty little deals to take away the penalty rates of low-paid workers on Saturdays and Sundays? And what do those on the other side— The PRESIDENT: Order on my left! I have asked once. It is getting difficult for me to hear. Interjections can have their place, but not a wall of noise that prevents other senators— Senator O'Neill interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order, Senator O'Neill! Interjections have their place; a wall of noise that prevents substantial numbers of senators from hearing a minister's response does not. Senator CASH: Those on the other side are quite happy to come in here and run a protection racket for dishonest union bosses.