Senator CASH (Western Australia—Minister Assisting the Prime Minister for the Public Service, Minister for Employment and Minister for Women) (14:33): Does anyone seriously think that such payments could in any way be ethical or not create a serious conflict of interest? In fact most Australians, in the feedback that I've received for a very long time now, are actually staggered that such payments were able to occur. Employers and unions should at all times put the interests of the workers first. Anything that causes a conflict between the employer, the union and the workers should not be allowed. Anything that could suggest that a union is receiving money in return for compromising the interests of their workers should be made unlawful. Just remember: corrupt receipt means corrupt payment. That's why the bill targets both employers and unions. They will both be liable for these practices. The PRESIDENT: Senator Smith, a final supplementary question.