Senator BILYK (Tasmania—Deputy Opposition Whip in the Senate) (14:10): Given that the market would not give NBN a loan it could afford and that the NBN had to be bailed out with $19.5 billion in taxpayer-backed loans, isn't it clear Mr Turnbull's second-rate copper-dominated NBN is uncommercial and unviable? Senator Nash: It was your mess that we had to clean up. Senator Wong: Yours is going to cost more and it is copper! Brilliant! What a brilliant strategy! Senator Ian Macdonald: Penny! Penny, quiet! Quiet, Penny! The PRESIDENT: Order, on both sides!