Senator CORMANN (Western Australia—Minister for Finance and Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) (14:33): What I would say to the good senator is that just because interest rates are comparatively low today does not mean that is going to be the case forever, and the debt growth trajectory that we have inherited from the Labor-Greens government is unsustainable. It does actually expose Australia to unacceptable levels of risk, which is why we are focused on bringing the debt growth trajectory down to stabilise debt and over time to reduce it as a share of the economy and in dollar terms. That is something that we need to do. Australia has terms of trade which are more than twice as volatile as the OECD average. We are very much a trading nation. We are an exporting country. If you look, for example, at what has happened to the price of iron ore in recent years, representing more than 20 per cent of— The PRESIDENT: Pause the clock. Senator Whish-Wilson? Senator Whish-Wilson: Mr President, a point of order on relevance: I have waited awhile for the answer. I did ask what the government's plans were for investing in productive, transformative infrastructure in this country. The PRESIDENT: You did ask the minister about borrowing whilst the interest rates are low, and the minister did answer that up-front by saying that interest rates might not necessarily be low forever. I think implicit in the minister's answer was the fact that there is caution against borrowing. So I believe that the minister has been directly relevant. Senator CORMANN: And of course as part of our national economic plan for jobs and growth we are rolling out a $50 billion infrastructure investment program over the period 2013-14 to 2019-20— (Time expired) The PRESIDENT: Senator Whish-Wilson, a final supplementary question.