Senator WILLIAMS (New South Wales) (15:17): I find it amazing that Senator Urquhart is talking about the cost of living and— Senator Conroy: The GST's main man. Senator WILLIAMS: We have got Senator Conroy interjecting again—dear oh dear. We will just disregard the interjections. I will talk to you, Deputy President. They want to go into the next election with this huge carbon tax, this huge price on carbon because that is not going to affect the price of electricity. As Senator Polley said, people have to go to bed in their electric blankets to keep warm. Those opposite would tax our electric blankets; that is their plan. Haven't they learnt? Who is running their tactics? It is probably Senator Conroy running the tactics for the opposition, hence the pathetic attack and the scaremongering they are going on with. Senator Polley talked about these huge cuts on health spending by the government. It is quite amazing that when the opposition were in government and they knew they were going to lose the election, they made this enormous promise about all this spending on health and education knowing full well they were going to lose the election. They brought back Kevin Rudd to try and save the furniture when they sacked Prime Minister Julia Gillard. They went into this huge promise knowing full well they would never have to budget for it and never have to deliver it. I am on a health inquiry with Senator Deb O'Neill at the moment. I was in Sydney last week. We just gave a 12.7 per cent increase this financial year to New South Wales for hospital spending. With 7.5 per cent next year, that is over 20 per cent in two years, and those opposite are saying we are cutting the spending in health. It is quite amazing that we are actually delivering it. When you talk about the scaremongering of raising the GST, there is only one person in Australia who has said we should raise the GST and that is Mr Jay Weatherill, the Premier of South Australia. The Labor Premier of South Australia said, 'Let's raise it to 15 per cent.' Opposition senators interjecting— Senator WILLIAMS: I say to those opposite—when I can get a word in from Senator Conroy—if only you understood business. This is what happens in business: if you are running a business and you have got a debt, the best way to pay for that debt or decrease it is to grow your business. Senator Conroy interjecting— Senator WILLIAMS: You would not understand about business, Senator Conroy, because you have probably just been around the union movement most of your life like all your colleagues over there. They are all out of the union movement. The only thing you ever sold in your life was a union ticket. Senator Conroy: No wonder you hate unions. Senator WILLIAMS: I do not hate unions. The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Senator Williams, ignore the interjections as I am also trying to. Senator WILLIAMS: I will do my best but it is very difficult to ignore them. I do not hate unions. I was once a member of the Australian Workers' Union, when I was shearing in 1978 in the Flinders Ranges. I had a choice: buy a union ticket or get out of the shed. They held a gun at my head—buy a union ticket or get out of the shed or you will lose your job. Those opposite, if only you had some business experience. When you have a debt, you grow your business and that is what we are aiming to do. Those opposite should stand up and say, 'Our tax system is perfect. We have the most perfect tax system in the world. No need to look at it. No need to adjust it. No need to discuss it with the Australian people or with the business sector or with the various interest parties throughout our nation. Don't talk about it; it is perfect.' You are saying our tax system is perfect. I will tell you what is wrong with our tax system. The states have a payroll tax and I think it is a disgusting tax. As John Laws always says, 'The more you tax something the less you have of it.' What do we say when a business grows from, say, the threshold in New South Wales of around 14 to 15 employees? We say, 'We are going to tax you.' For what reason? You naughty business—you grew and you employed people. What a terrible thing to do. This is why we say, 'Don't have the discussion.' I talk to businesses as I travel around and the payroll tax costs them, but let's not discuss that because the tax system is perfect. Ask those union reps on the other side. They have never run a business. They know all about growing business and handling tax—with no experience! They just do what the unions tell them to do. That is all they do. All they are worried about is who writes their cheques—the CFMEU. They just do as they are told by the union movement. It is amazing that they simply do not understand that we must grow our businesses. When they were in government they had the best terms of trade our country has ever seen and record prices for iron ore, coal and all the exports. Of course, those prices have collapsed dramatically now, which is a terrible shame for those businesses and for the country as a whole. So they had all this money coming in and of course they just blew it. Now they are experts on taxation. Let us have the discussion. Let us see what we can do better to make our economy stronger, to employ more people, to grow businesses and to help to get Labor's debt under control. You just cannot believe how quickly they could have grown such debt and wasted so much money. (Time expired)