Senator BRANDIS (Queensland—Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate, Vice-President of the Executive Council, Minister for Arts and Attorney-General) (14:37): Senator Madigan, I know that this is also a very, very important and difficult issue. Of course, to state the obvious, perjury is a crime. But you are quite right when you say that very commonly—and not just, by the way, in proceedings in the family law jurisdiction—witnesses perjure themselves or they are found by the judge to have given unreliable or untruthful evidence, and very, very commonly they are not prosecuted. So the point I would make to you, Senator Madigan, is that this is not exclusively a problem for the Family Court. But, of course, if a witness does give unreliable evidence, if a witness does give evidence that the trial judge considers to have been untruthful, then that, of course, is likely to lead to findings against them, certainly findings against them in relation to any assertions of fact or allegations they might make in the course of giving that unreliable evidence.